Profiting from the Fear of a Faith
Two days ago, I went to a film screening. The film was about Islam. The film was by Irshad Manji.
Now having just written the post below about listening to Muslim musicians with the heart of faith and not the heart of judgment based on a fortress of fear (my exact words), I had no choice but to walk the talk (ain’t it awful when your words come back to snack on you?) Had the National Film Board of Canada (which was holding the screening) told me in the subject line of their e-mail: consultation on a screening for a film by Irshad Manji, writer of the book The Trouble with Islam Today, I would have dropped them a quick telegram back: extremely busy. stop. too busy. stop. to write. stop. a full. stop. flat. stop. out. REFUSAL. stop. and then would have dropped that email right into the handy dandy trash bin on the left.
But it didn’t happen that way. So there I was sludging through the snow, subway, sidewalk and finally, screening room all the while with visions of this next glorious addition to the Muslim Canadian arts tapestry floating in my head. We had Me and the Mosque (Zarqa Nawaz), we had Little Mosque on the Prairie (Zarqa Nawaz) and before that we had Death Threat (Zarqa Nawaz) and even before that, BBQ Muslims (Zarqa Nawaz) – man, Zarqa Nawaz was a one woman industry! – and now we were going to have… Faith Without Fear (Irshad Manji)?
I have some confessions to make before I dissect this film with all the rigor of an Irshad Manji-detractor released from a fortress. I have not read The Trouble with Islam Today. I have no desire to do so. I’m always told the trouble with Islam today – usually from my daily newspaper, certain news channels and complete strangers who, while muttering profanity about my faith, step on my long skirt while I’m heading down subway stairs. And while I’ve viewed Irshad Manji speak on discussion panels on TV, most of my knowledge about her comes from Muslim conversations and things I’ve read about things she said/wrote/did and, things she wrote on her website.
Extending my confession, I will have to state that I am biased against her. My bias before I saw this film and my bias after I viewed the film has remained constant. And it has to do with more than her views on the religion of Islam – which, in this film, appear to be reverential (in contrast to content on her website). More on that later.
I really, truly tried to be a good person and even took a deep breath to dissipate that fortress of fear closing in as I sat back in my seat to watch Faith Without Fear. From the opening scene of a pensive Ms. Manji surveying a night city skyline from an apartment fortified against the “faithful” who have vowed to wish “her to eat rotten goat meat causing diarrhea” (an actual emailed threat – apparently, I think, from a halal butcher specializing in goat) and another who believes that “even the hair on her head stands up in protest of her lies” (apparently from a halal hairdresser), to the interviews with other Islamically-challenged personalities, Salman Rushdie and Ayan Hirsi Ali, I knew I’ve seen this film before. The refrain running throughout it almost served as a broken soundtrack to the documentary. Out of all the negative feelings Faith Without Fear rustled in me, the worst was the instant recognizability of the premise trotted out: Muslims are ruining the soul of Islam.
Tell us something we didn’t know. I don’t know one Muslim – NOT A-ONE – who’s sitting back, licking his lips and patting his biryani filled stomach smug with the knowledge that Muslims are living up to the standards set by the Prophet Muhammad. Every Imam I’ve heard has said it. Even the head of the Islamic Supreme Council said it on her film and he’s supposed to be one of her supreme detractors.
The trouble, apparently Ms. Manji has with Muslims – besides the fact that Muslims are oblivious to the fact that there are a lot of Muslimals (sort of like cannibals – except that cannibals are humans who eat other humans and Muslimals are Muslims who kill other Muslims [not to be confused with murderous Islamophobes who are merely other humans who kill Muslims - boy, Muslims are getting it from all sides]) and besides the fact that a lot of Muslim men walk around with…news flash… ceremonial daggers at their waists (we saw so many shots of these in the film that my mind started wandering to the artistic beauty of the designs on their sheaths) and besides the fact that Muslim women are either so ugly they’re covered up or so erotic they’re covered up and besides the fact that Muslims don’t let every Tom, Dick and Irshad just wander on to private property and start filming (which was a classic borrow from Bowling for Columbine except instead of the NRA and Charlton Heston we had a suburban mosque and a man with a large stomach) – the trouble Ms. Manji has with Muslims is that they can’t tolerate pokes at the Prophet Muhammad and the veracity of the Quran. As she reminds us more than once, Muslims have not learned that being offended is the price you pay for living in a free society. In other words: prepare to be poked. Even if the poking is done with the sharpened points of racism and xenophobia (one word: Europe), we are to bear the wounds with a grinning, bowed head salaam. Brings to mind other peoples in history who were constantly lectured about how they should bravely bear offences and be a good little white man’s burden.
As professor Michael Neumann points out in his article, Respectful Cultures & Disrespectful Cartoons: East Meets West, the ideal, or “piety” as he calls it, of respecting others and the very act of disrespecting their sacred ideas/events/beliefs being a punishable offense had become the “official Western culture”. Hence, the sacred topic of the Holocaust is rightly kept aloft from smears and challenges by anti-Semitic tirades in the Western world. But as a child hides a candy she was sharing with her friend when a stranger comes into the room, this ideal, this piety, was wrenched away as soon as others started reaching their hands out. Instead, these others are poked and told that it’s part of staying in the room. As he states:
The point is rather than the West has put ideological weapons in the hands of those it now wants to repel, and thrown away the weapons that might have proved useful in such an effort. The most basic notions of the rule of law — that you should not be punished for what you cannot help, like the feelings you have, that no one should be expected to obey laws so vague that the criteria of obedience are mysterious — were thrown away years ago. They cannot be picked out of the trashcan and held up as shiny Western ideals just because it is now convenient to do so.
Apparently, we newcomers into the room are not to dare even dream of this expectation of respectful treatment. Well, we all know from African-American poet Langston Hughes’ popular civil rights poem what happens to a dream deferred:
What happens to a dream deferred?
Does it dry up
like a raisin in the sun?
Or fester like a sore–
And then run?
Does it stink like rotten meat?
Or crust and sugar over–
like a syrupy sweet?
Maybe it just sags
like a heavy load.
Or does it explode?
Ms. Manji, cue the crowds…and, ACTION! We are offered scenes of masses of people waving fists, angry screaming raisins about to explode. Ms. Manji: there’s nothing more cliche in a documentary on Islam and current events than images of chanting Muslims. I practically fell off my fortress snoring. Again, tell us something we didn’t know. Muslims are angry. But we’re not angry because you have candies called freedom, rights and respect. No, we’re angry because you taunt our share of candy. And when you pretend to “share” yours (like in Iraq), it’s usually to make sure we don’t have anything left for ourselves.
My Irshad-Manji-bias has to do with her convenient glossing over of the underlying political, social and economic factors of current events in the Muslim world and Muslim communities. Has she not considered the “Trouble with Islam Today” might not actually be the “Trouble with the World Today”? Hand me a historical map of the Middle East – but first be sure to erase evidence which shows the amount of racist colonization, wars and arbitrarily drawn borders the region has suffered – and then tell me all the current anger has to do with Islamists agitating. Give me statistics to show that the status of women is not declining all around the world – just among Muslims. Bring me the bank account balances of the average Afghani, Iraqi and Palestinian – oh, wait, they either don’t make enough to open an account or it’s frozen until they’re proven innocent of the guilt of terrorism.
So there lies my bias against Irshad Manji. I have no trouble with Ms. Manji’s calls to reform the Muslim world. I’m really genuinely sad that she happened to be in a Sunday school class which didn’t allow her to question her faith. As the daughter of a religious scholar, I can state that that’s not the norm I know. If it were, you wouldn’t see popular sites like Islamonline.net – which is all about questions and more questions. You wouldn’t see 23 000 Muslims convening to an American city every labour day weekend to question, discuss and debate diverse topics as they do annually at the Islamic Society of North America’s conventions. I’m not going to glazingly state that Muslim communities are the heights of democratic discourse and friendly dissension but nevertheless, it is alive and beginning to kick once again. Getting it to the healthy state it was historically (as Ms. Manji points out in her own film) is going to take contemplative reform not attacks in the form of books and films which shut out the very people you want to recharge.
It’s easy to wave the red flag of the “trouble with Islam” and lump it with terrorism, patriarchy, tribal warfare and dogma-obsession – and then, paradoxically, state these issues have nothing to do with the “Islam she loves” as Ms. Manji does in the film. I was actually quite confused by this. While the film made me blush with pride at all the personal references to the guidance of the Qur’an and the nobility and justice of the Prophet Muhammed, Ms. Manji’s website offers another take. To give her the benefit of the doubt, we’ll have to assume Ms. Manji’s website has to be updated to reflect the perhaps newly-attained reverence for Islam, the Prophet and the Qur’an she periodically punctuates (and lights up) the film with. As a practicing Muslim it would be no news flash to state that those were the best parts of the film for me – those and Ms. Manji’s discussions with her mother on piety.
But as we all know, discussions on personal piety don’t sell films. Waving red flags does. And if there was one thing each and everyone who was there for the screening (and we were a batch of varied voices for the most part) agreed on, it was this: this film is all about Irshad Manji. Irshad Manji doing what she does best – lamenting her unfortunate and dangerous position as the harbinger of reform to the tumultuous Islamic world. My bet is that her Faith Without Fear will lead to more Islamophobia: the hatred and fear of a Faith.
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I want to thank the National Film Board for the exceptional job they did of facilitating the discussion on this film; their stated mandate was to open up the discourse in a way which would allow other voices to speak alongside those more often heard, as well as provide a wider context to the views expressed in Faith Without Fear.

Salam,
Wow, you sure took great notes in the dark.
I had an interesting discussion with Tariq Fatah after the screening, which I’ll share with you at some point. Thanks for the commentary – very thorough! It was great that the NFB invited us to this session. However, I wish we had more time discuss the specifics of the film as you’ve done here, rather than the general overview.
Like you, I was baffled by the whole freedom = the ability to endure offence, thing. That was reiterated so many times, it seemed Manji had to convince herself of her own ridiculous theory. I love your quote,
. . . we are to bear the wounds with a grinning, bowed head salaam. Brings to mind other peoples in history who were constantly lectured about how they should bravely bear offences and be a good little white man’s burden.
Among the countless problems with this film, the scene with the Arab father who said he would be proud if his son died a martyr, really stuck with me. I thought of the Canadian Military families that are routinely featured on the nightly news, as the propaganda surrounding the ‘humanitarian’ mission in Afghanistan intensifies.
These families whole heartedly support their children and they speak of their pride without hesitation, without questioning the mission. How is that different from the vilified Arab families who are proud of their children? Do they not have a right to resist? They aren’t going off invading foreign lands but simply defending their own. This double standard irks me to no end.
Anyway, I could go on and on. But I’ll stop here. Again, I’m so glad the NFB invited us and I’m looking forward to hearing from them again.
Thanks for sharing.
Salam. Fizza
P.S. I recently started reading the “Autobiography of Malcolm X” for the third time since high school. What an inspirational work! It’s remarkable how some human struggles remain constant throughout time. It’s as though I could substitute our community today, with that of the Black Muslim movement of the 60’s – the similarities are uncanny.
ASA,
I appreciate the thorough review and …the warning! You are right on cue (no pun intended) about Ms. Manji’s lacklustre research skills when it comes history and historical context. Many wrote on this point after “Trouble with Islam Today” was published, of particular poignancy was Tarek Fatah’s open letter to Ms. Manji.
It’s frustrating that when the mainstream media need to trot out a Muslim spokesperson, they turn to someone like Manji who is so atypical. I suppose she feels that her words and pontificating are helpful; but to me they feel like a slap in the face.
Wow – what a commentary! I couldn’t agree with you more … particularly as it relates to the constant supposed need to somehow “prove” ourselves against an elusive target of whatever is deemed to be the new acceptable and expected reaction.
In Abdo’s book “Mecca and the Main Street” – the author makes an excellent point about an emerging group of “Muslims” – those that capitalize for financial and egotistical glorification by offering up to the general “western” masses a version and take on Islam that feeds their already misguided views and doesn’t offer up the true and honest version and vision of what Islam and the average Muslim really are about.
In the words of another commentator below “I could go on, but I won’t”.
Once again, excellent job.
Thanks for the great review. Well, I won’t be in any rush to watch Faith Without Fear.
For those of you interested in checking it out for yourselves… Faith Without Fear is set to air in April on PBS.
How can you even begin criticize her without reading her book?
This is the height of hypocrisy, and exactly what Irshad has been working to curb.
Hello Zel, and welcome. I tried to lay it all bare in the beginning: true I have not read her book but I also pointed out why I did not wish to. I wasn’t critiquing (not criticizing) her per se but her film.
For someone who isn’t interested to read her book, you’re sure interested to write a long commentary about her … What’s up with that …
Hello Anonymous, and welcome as well. As for the “what’s up with that” you posed in reference to not reading Ms. Manji’s book, again I’ll just reiterate that I laid it bare in the beginning as to why I had no desire to read “The Trouble With Islam Today” – I get enough of that kind of “commentary” without even seeking it actively so why would I reach for further such analysis? My commentary/review (which IS rather long, I’ll agree) pertains specifically to Ms. Manji’s film – which I did see.
The reason you don’t want to read her book is because you don’t want to face any ugly facts. You just continue to play appologist for bin Laden and his friends by making excuses for the mess the muslim world is in which is, for the most part, of our own making. Hence your inability to conter any of her points.
Funny that Anonymous and Zel are so nit picky about you not having read Manji’s book. Hmmmmmmm, I wonder if they also wonder why Manji would write a book about “The Trouble with Islam Today” when she herself fails to have relied on little more then her own anecdotal experiences with Islam in her book.
Critical as they appear to sound, would they then also agree that her book should in fact be titled “The Trouble with the Version of Islam I was Exposed to”?
Hajara, that’s simply untrue. If you have read her book, then you will surely know that while she uses personal stories in it (an almost universal practice in popular non-fiction), her main arguments rely on documented facts.
My point remains, that you cannot expect to have your criticisms of her taken seriously unless you are willing to hear what she is saying.
Welcome back Zel. I find it interesting that it is so important to you that I read her book before I critique (not CRITICIZE – there IS a difference) her film. If this is so essential then surely when critiquing a religion as Ms. Manji has done, it is just as essential or EVEN MORE essential for her to have read more than she has of Islamic Scholarship.
Salaam All,
I think it is important to know that Irshad Manji has been running away from debating Islamic scholars.
Irshad Manji is claiming that she wants to initiate debate, but she only seeks after ignorant Muslims to debate with! ExamineTheTruth.com has challenged her repeatedly but she is ducking him big time!
I would ask the owner of this blog to please post on the front of your blog this clear challenge to debate, and expose her if she refuses!
-Fatima
Asalaam alaikum wa rahmatulla wa barakato:) I watched Irshad Manji’s documentary tonight and thought it was HILARIOUSLY STUPID that she featured Ayan Hirsi. Well, I think I should make a documentary called “The Trouble With Women Like These Two” and make it about women who the anti-Islamic media chooses to speak for US, the Ummah, about Islam. First of all, she obviously doesnt observe Hijaab, and she admitted in her documentary she doesnt pray 5 times a day—and the public is being shown HER version of Islam???? SubhanAllah! I have only been a Muslim for almost two years and I have no problem wearing Hijaab, waking up for Fajr or getting my prayers done on time! Its like asking Jennifer Lopez what its like to be a devout Catholic woman, with her booty-shaking, married one day/divorced the next lifestyle. Btw I think I know the woman who was passing out those pamphlets seen in Irshad’s documentary. She is a very nice Sister, may Allah SWT reward her for trying to warn the public. To the Sister who wrote this post, thank-you very much, I enjoyed reading it and couldnt agree more:D
Salaam alaikum wa rahmatullah wa barakato!
Dear Commonplacer,
Injustices have been done to Muslims and by Muslims both historically and in the present day, this is not in question. It is also the case that many Muslims believe the western world’s perception of Islam and Muslim history to be incorrect. To hear Muslim voices in these matters is invaluable. Manji happens to be one of the only Muslims who is willing to publicly raise questions that many non-Muslims have regarding the facts about Islam. Most Muslims avoid giving solid answers to non-Muslim concerns such as those I pose below.
I have stated this to Manji and you now also that injustices having been acknowledged, I believe it is in the interest of the common good that individuals and leaders of the Islamic community (Ummah) explain to non-Muslims the apparently theocratic political orientation of their faith tradition. Muslims state that Islam is a way of life, not just a religious belief system. One sees in Islam a form of social governance with an established juridical tradition, ‘Sharia Law’ in its various schools of interpretation. Islam is political in the Western sense by its very nature. There can be no firmly supported separation of ‘Mosque and state’ from a Muslim perspective, though some have tried. Many countries with a Muslim majority are self declared Islamic states or republics. The Ummah the world over struggles to introduce Islamic jurisprudence and governance over its own community and others who accept it as we know from Afghanistan, Nigeria, Sudan, the Philippines, and as proposed in Ontario, etc.
Islamic thought, values and forms of governance in various nations across the globe have an approximate 1,300 year history of development. Let us look to respected 20th and 21st century Islamic nations and individuals as windows into the Islamic mind and will for the future of humanity. For the sake of mutual understanding a deeper exposition of orthodox Qur’anic interpretation and Muslim understanding of individual rights and freedoms, the value of human life and human dignity would be beneficial to all. Hearing voices from the heart of the Islamic cultural sphere, ie. Egypt, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Indonesia, et cetera. would be particularly valuable and is indeed necessary.
It is often stated that ‘Islam’ means ‘peace’ and ‘submission’. Muslims must take responsibility for clarifying to non-Muslims what peace and submission mean from an Islamic perspective. Secular non-Muslims must recognise that the contemporary Western disregard for religious world views, whatever they be, is no longer a viable manner of looking at issues of global importance. All communities of religious faith in the west must be willing to cooperate for peace and the common good. Peaceful coexistence is the only reasonable option.
Arthur JC Schmidt
___________________________________________________________________
I understand what Islam is in theory, I was a near ‘revert’, but I what it is in practice the world over is another thing entirely it seems. I know that I as a non-Muslim am not considered an equal to Muslims, as the ummah here in Calgary has made very clear to me. I am also acquainted with non-Muslims from predominantly Muslim countries whose experience is the same. Women in practice are not treated justly, and killing innocent people “in the name of God” is accepted globally by large numbers of Muslims and their leaders. If it were not so then martyr/suicide missions would not go on from London to Somalia to Afghanistan to Indonesia.
The only Muslim voice I have heard speak openly and frankly about the obvious problems with the majority interpretation and practice of Islam is Irshad Manji and I know she’s considered an ‘outsider’ by many Muslims. She has, however, in her most famous work “The Problem with Islam Today”, addressed every question I’ve had regarding Islam. Why is the ‘orthodox’ body of Muslim leadership not being so forthright?
Please, I need some open and honest dialogue and I have yet to meet a Muslim who is willing to talk to me. If someone from your community does not engage me in this conversation then I will be left only with Irshad Manji’s assessments, and my own perspectives which up to now have not been overly positive.
Yours, Arthur Schmidt
Asalaamun alaykum,
I’m from the Muslim community Ms. Manji visits in the film and am pretty familiar with the event–I wasn’t there, but the gentlemen who asked her if she’d received permission for filiming at the Centre gave me the rundown after it happened. We do allow filming at the Centre, but we have a media policy that guides access and restrictions, which are pretty reasonable for private property. Given the statements Ms. Manji has made about community members personally in the past, I think the brothers that asked her to stop filming without permission were just a little gunshy and apprehensive about her intentions, which again isn’t unreasonable. She made the point in the film herself–maybe they should have called ahead.
Great article, by the way…
–A
great write up , and good blog , hope to read more
Another point:
You say: “I’m really genuinely sad that she happened to be in a Sunday school class which didn’t allow her to question her faith.” Ms. Manji attended madressah at a time when her community was in a fledgling stage–the religious classes were run singlehandedly by a devoted individual who was just doing the best that he could. Without a doubt, there were likely points for improvement, and had Ms. Manji chosen to stay on, she may have helped the madressah, and her own community, improve through hands-on contributions rather than condemnations from the place she’s at now. She says in Faith Without Fear that she was expelled for asking questions about human rights abuses in Muslim countries–without getting into the veracity of that claim, the madressah curriculum at that time wasn’t prepared to discuss current events. Now, whether or not current events should have been part of curriculum is a valid question, but if I were enrolled in a course on First Nations short stories and couldn’t stop myself from providing criticisms of Moby Dick, I shouldn’t be suprised if I’m asked to leave.
–A
It is great to see the debate and dissent created by Irshad in these comments. That is the whole point of her book and documentary, to promote debate and discussion within her community. This debate can continue to go in circles with point and counter points, what is important is that some new ideas and thoughts can emerge and that eventually some of the old controveries will be just that old. Great writings to all who have blogged on this site and continue the dialogue it is worth the effort.
Welcome Fatima, Aalia, Arthur, Abdiel and Ali,
Fatima, since I am not familiar with ExamineTheTruth.com and their attempts to engage Irshad Manji in dialog, I will leave your comment as a challenge to Ms. Manji to take up if she so wishes. Thank you for the feedback, Fatima.
Aalia, you’ve written some important points. My friend Boz-Chick touched on this issue as well – how some voices are given more coverage in the media; she pointed out that the book “Mecca and the Main Street” is about this very phenomena. I haven’t read it – yet. However, I would like to say that I don’t believe the media is anti-Islamic as such; thinking this way may result in us cordoning ourselves off like an island instead of engaging with OUR society and OUR media. Thanks for your input, Aaalia.
Arthur, you raise some important concerns. If I take your comment correctly, you are seeking dialog to understand how Muslims other than Irshad Manji address the concerns you raised. I will attempt to look at each of your concerns in a future post, God willing and I will try to do it with input from other Muslims as well. In the meantime, there’s an amazing number of blogs and forums (some of which are linked to my blog – and through these blogs, you can access other forums) which address these very issues; A forum that I can recommend which has a variety of Muslim voices would be eteraz.org.
I would like to address one of your concerns briefly here. You wrote:
“… killing innocent people “in the name of God” is accepted globally by large numbers of Muslims and their leaders.” I strongly dispute the notion that killing innocent people is accepted so widely. Muslim scholars have NO debate on this issue – taking innocent life is a major sin. I would be interested to know where you get the idea that it was accepted “by large numbers of Muslims and their leaders.”
Arthur, thank you for your interest in seeking dialog. Stay tuned.
Abdiel, amazing input (especially the part clarifying Ms. Manji’s madressah experience) – Thank you! (What more can I say?)
Hi. I do appreciate your reply to my concerns. I have genuinely had no response to any of these questions by anyone in the Islamic community and I’ve been asking for… years. Even the Office of the Islamic Supreme Council has not replied to me! Thanks for the link too.
That the killing of innocents is widely accepted by large numbers of Muslims and their leaders is an observation of my own.
I realise that Muslim scholars say this is unacceptable based upon their understanding of Islamic law, however, suicide bombings/martyr missions continue and are gradually spreading from the Mid-East outward. If such actions were strictly forbidden according to Orthodox Islamic teaching I suggest that they would not happen ever. In the case of the other Abrahamic traditions, for example, I do not witness devout Jews and Christians blowing themselves and others up, or murdering people as in the case of 3 Christians in Turkey last week, and claiming that it is ‘for God’.
This is frank discussion and I appreciate your willingness to engage these questions with me.
Thanks for your willingness to communicate. Arthur
I’m not going to glazingly state that Muslim communities are the heights of democratic discourse and friendly dissension but nevertheless, it is alive and beginning to kick once again. Getting it to the healthy state it was historically (as Ms. Manji points out in her own film) is going to take contemplative reform not attacks in the form of books and films which shut out the very people you want to recharge.
That is the money quote. But, contemplative reform wasn’t happening. Status quo was. We in the West can’t live with the status quo after September 11th. So, the book and film have kicked off the introspection and examination for you. This is all that Irshad Manji has asked.
“The Trouble with Islam Today” when she herself fails to have relied on little more then her own anecdotal experiences with Islam in her book.” ……Your quote refers to a book you have not read
Sweetie, read the book. Anything less is poor scholarship.
Arthur,
When you say that it’s an observation of your own that “the killing of innocents is widely accepted by large numbers of Muslims and their leaders”, you admit to a skewed, discriminatory view of Muslims.
You are in effect saying that you believe a large number of people of a certain faith see no problem with murder. Does that not strike you as extremely myopic?
Using the increase in violence in the Middle East as the basis for this “observation” does not give it credence. The politics of the region go beyond such simple analysis as “Muslims seem to accept killing innocent people”. Taking a look at the death toll of the war in Iraq (from the Clinton era to now) would reveal over a million innocent people killed at the hands of “coalition forces” – do I then have the right to say oh look, the leader of these forces, a strong Christian, states that he is in communication with God and so Christians must accept the killing of innocent people?
I definitely do not have that right because simply put, it is not as simplistic as that, plus I respect the adherents of all religions and honestly believe that at the soul of each religion is the utmost respect for life created by God.
As for whether such actions are strictly forbidden according to Orthodox Islamic teaching, I leave you with a verse from the Qur’an – the text which is at the basis of all Islamic teachings:
“Taking a life is like taking all of humanity and saving a life is like saving all of humanity.”
Dear Commonplacer,
I view our dialogue as one to be held with the utmost respect for one another so I apologise if I caused you offence in my answer to your previous question.
If you are willing, I would appreciate it very much if you would share with me, a non-Muslim, what you hold to be most important for me, as an outsider, to be able to understand Islam and Muslims better.
Seeking Dialogue, Arthur.
Arthur, I’ve replied in a post (see May 7 post). I hope I answered your query. Please feel free to ask for any further clarifications.
Thanks for your openness.
Arthur
CommonPlacer has made her point about Islam quite clear. However, I want to vent my point of view as a believing and practicing Muslim.
You have asked why a Muslim does not consider a non-Muslim as equal.
In some sense he does, in some sense he does not.
Just as a communist and a conservative Christian are in some sense equal and in some sense they are not.
When a Christian (or a Marxist or a Muslim or whatever) talks or interacts with somebody else, he likes it if the other person agrees. Any sensible Christian (or whatever) will not expect or force his opinion on the other person. But when he is asked, he’ll call the person who agrees with him more -’more sensible’.
There are finer tunes to it, but that was the coarse picture.
In the same manner, as the Muslims think Islam is True, who does not believe in the message of Islam are equal in some sense and not equal in some other sense. For example the other person is perfectly allowed to hold his opinion that Islam is wrong, but he is not, then, allowed to run the country according to his convictions.
It may be easier to grasp when put in a different perspective. I understand that you respect the the communists’ right to believe in what he belives. (I’m assuming you are not a communist).
Now- would you like it if he tries to run the country according to communism?
You will not.
It is the same with Islam.
Dear Commonplacer,
Ms. Commonplacer
I thank you for your very generous willingness to respond with such openness to my question. I have asked other Muslims these questions in the past but you are the first to feel comfortable enough to answer.
I am hearing something that seems to be from the depth of your heart. It sounds as though you have a genuine love for your Creator and the religious tradition through which you have come to know the source of all in your life. Your response was very kind and beautiful. I really appreciate it.
Peace. Arthur
I’m going to explain something. You have the right to your beliefs but your beliefs are not immune from criticism.
To insist that nonbelievers must respect your religion or your prophet is imposing your religion on nonbelievers. And that is infringing on their rights.
As a believer, you have the burden of proof, not the skeptics.
“In the same manner, as the Muslims think Islam is True, who does not believe in the message of Islam are equal in some sense and not equal in some other sense. For example the other person is perfectly allowed to hold his opinion that Islam is wrong, but he is not, then, allowed to run the country according to his convictions.”
Since western countries are not Islamic, free speech cannot be held hostage by your convictions. Just because you view your opinion as superior, does not mean that I am obligated to.
The secend part of the response was in response to another poster (Manas).
When Muslims are in majority, they are not supposed to impose their social values on non-Muslims. And when they live under a non-Islamic rule, they are supposed to exhort, but not force, their political will on others (unless things are going too bad- like there’s an Inquisition in place).
About free speech:
Don’t pretend that you can say anything and everything that you want to say in the west.
I think those who claim Holocaust is a myth are wrong. But if speech were totally free, why won’t you allow people to question it in some western countries?
Freedom does not mean you can do anything and everything. Freedom does not mean you can rob. And you know it. That is why there is this ban on questioning Holocaust.
Freedom of speech does not mean you can defame somebody.
A lot of responsibility comes with freedom.
Please don’t think that freedom of speech is an alien idea with Islam. We have known freedom of speech for a long long time. The movement of Rennaissance was actually in many parts inspired by Islam. And a major idea that crept into European society from the Muslims was free thinking and free speech. If you are surprised, I can give you references (and this).
Dear Commonplacer,
I came across the following and thought I’d pass it on to you to see if you think it might fit in with the train of thought we’ve been following here. I think it relates to some of Manas’ and others’ thoughts:
Date: 2007-05-18
Pope Lauds Christian-Muslim Collaboration
VATICAN CITY, MAY 18, 2007 (Zenit.org).- The collaboration of Christians and Muslims to promote justice and peace is possible and therefore necessary, says Benedict XVI.
The Pope made these remarks today, during the five-yearly visit of the bishops of Mali.
Of Mali’s 11.5 million people, some 90% are Muslim and only 2% are Catholic.
The Holy Father expressed his “satisfaction with the fact that Catholic faithful in Mali maintain cordial relations with their Muslim compatriots.”
He added: “It is vital that due attention is paid to deepening your knowledge of Muslims to favor friendship and fruitful collaboration between Christians and Muslims.
“It is right that the identity of each community should be able to express itself visibly in reciprocal respect, recognizing the religious diversity of the national community and favoring a serene coexistence, at every level of society.”
“Then it will be possible to walk together,” Benedict XVI continued, “in a common effort for justice, unity and peace.”
Peace, Arthur
That was nice to read, Arthur. Plus, it gives us hope if world leaders think in this way as opposed to falling back to the sectarian habits which seem so ingrained on the world stage.
Thanks for posting this.
“So, the book and film have kicked off the introspection and examination for you. This is all that Irshad Manji has asked.”
Puh-lease! I get so irritated when I find people giving Irshad Manji, Hirsi Ali or Rushdie this much credit. It is undeniably condescending to believe that somehow there has existed no debate; no dialogue before Manji.
Muslims, like any other group, are not robots unable to speak. The problem is what gets covered in the media and who is allowed to speak.
Muslim women activists like the late Shareefa Alkhateeb, Aisha Swartz, Mohja Kahf and others have done so much…but they have also maintained a double edged critique. That means that they make everyone uncomfortable (Muslim and non-Muslim, traditionalists and mainstream feminists, secularists and fundamentalists).
It is so insulting to us Muslim women when Rushdie asks in the NYT’s “Oh where are the Muslim women?” Is he crazy? One Muslim women professor responded “We are here but nobody wants to hear us-they only want you!”
I am sorry, but so many of the Manji lovers get fed exactly all the things they want to hear-no one is asked to confront their own ideals or standards. I read the book and when she decided to discuss “the” Arab mind I was disgusted. I am not an Arab but I know racism when I see it! Back in the 50s, in the United States there were similar books entitled “the” Negro mind. It’s ridiculous!
I am not saying don’t read Manji. But I also say read others too! Read other texts that are more complex and better researched. Visit websites like Karamah or the Muslim Women’s League. Find out about the Wise conference, a conference that gathered Muslim women from all stripes, sponsored by Asma. We live in difficult times and it calls for difficult critiques that makes us all a little uncomfortable-instead of allowing us to say “I knew those people were like that…”
Assalam to all..
I am Muslim. I am Bosnian. I am European. In this order. First of all I would like to say that i haven’t read all posts by Commonplacer, i simply didn’t have the opportunity to stumble upon your blog. However, i was browsing some of the websites today, read about Irshad Manji and there I saw link to your blog. I must say I am very impressed by the way of your critique. Clear, simple, easy to understand, even though it is visible you are trying to express not so strict opinion about her (Irshad) ignorance. Many, many times I have been faced with questions she is raising all the time. Many times i struggled to get simple-to-follow answers, sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn’t.
We are living in time where all questions are allowed, and personally i think it is good. Islam has never forbidden any questions. Islam has never forbidden freedom of thoughts. On contrary, thoughts and opinions are derived from education, from research. Wasn’t “Iqra! (Read!; Study!)” the first verse which was revealed to Prophet Muhammad s.a.w.s.?
Opinion should be formed out of facts, or a hypothesis at least. But facts and hypothesis also require certain research, or proof. Irshad offers none. All she can offer is “I do this my way, I do that my way..” and for her that is enough to call herself reformed Muslim. Funny, but her actions do not follow ground rules of Islam. She is preaching, yet she didn’t have courtesy to wear hijab or any other scarf during her visit to Rotterdam Mosque (photo published on her website). It’s sad. It reminded me on one newspaper article about Spanish queen visit to Sarajevo and one of the oldest mosques in Bosnia – Gazi Husref bey mosque (this happened sometimes ’80s). The queen was polite and kind enough to wear headscarf and remove her shoes before entering the mosque, and a photo of the queen removing her shoes at the main mosque entrance went public worldwide. And here we have some distressed woman claiming all which she claims and at the same time acting the way she is. What kind of treatment should expect from Christians, or other non-Muslims if she claims to be Muslim and still behaves the same. Freedom of speech is a very good thing and I would strongly disagree if anybody tried to deny me that freedom. Yet if anyone dares to say anything against Holocaust – he/she is called Anti-Semitic (as though only Jews are Semitic people), fanatic, radicalist, etc. Where is the freedom of speech there? Make no mistake; I am against all types of tyranny and persecution, this example was only for the purpose of “Freedom of speech” application in the western countries.
Historia est Magistra Vitae. (”History is the teacher of life.”
- Latin proverb).
There will be numerous discussions about Islam and so called Islamic fanaticism (read – Terrorism). In my opinion – there isn’t such thing. There are psychos and there are normal ordinary people. The point is, majority of corporate media is pointed into this direction and we should know that media power of manipulation is a strong weapon. Especially today. Ok, I have to admit that some “fishy” things happened in the recent past…
Now i will explain why I quoted that Roman proverb. History will show what trully happened. To what cause? What was the main goal for all atrocities? What was the main goal for all media frenzy? I am not one of those “conspiracy theory” maniacs, but let us all ask ourselves one question: Who gained the most after 9/11? Who gained almost unlimited power? Who gained the opportunity to lie to the entire world, to inflict numerous casualties worldwide and get away with it?
It might not be as simple as it looks, but it’s still a bit fishy, don’t you think?
And in the end, what do you people think why is this Irshad character so widely accepted and supported in the western countries? Is it possible that this is coming from the fact that almost everybody with some Islamic heritage and willingness to criticize Islam and Muslims worldwide gets all media attention as well as a huge “tap on the back” like what happened with Salman Rushdi and his newly gained title?
I am going to end my writing here. I apologize to all because my comment/post is not entirely and clearly tied up on the topic in question. I merely felt free to express some of my thoughts.
I must express my deepest respect to Commonplacer for this blog (i haven’t read much of it but i hope i will) and also the effort by Arthur to understand and get answers to certain issues and questions. My best wishes to all others as well.
May Allah have mercy on us all.
Wassalam.
Hi Commonplacer,
I came across this letter of condolence from a Muslim to his Christian friend; I wanted to share it with you: http://www.mcpriests.com/10_fr_ragheed2.htm .
To me there is hope for the future, as hard as that might be at times, if people of differing worldviews and beliefs can treat eachother with dignity and respect.
Peace. Arthur.
Hello again Commonplacer,
I was in Britain last month at the time of the attempted bombings in London and Glasgow. There and here I encounter concerns like those expressed in the following article:
http://www.torontosun.com/News/Columnists/Coren_Michael/2007/08/04/4393031.html
Are orthodox Muslims really afraid to stand up to the fundamentalists in their communities?
Yours, Arthur.
How can you even begin to critisize Irshad without EVEN HAVING READ HER BOOK. Don’t be fooled by the title. It’s not an all out, free for all attack on Islam! It’s as though you are a theatre critic that absolutely refuses to see a performance and then chooses to then write about it in the Toronto Star. Pardon my expletive but… what the ****! Why don’t you just read the book and then make judgement?
Commonplacer- way to get on the back on those white imperialists and colonizers….grrrr… Why dont we use them as the excuse for all our problems from now until eternity! Take a look at the slave trade by muslims that still exists in Mauritania and the janjaweed in Sudan who are raping and pillaging black Africans! Thank GOD you live in a country commonplace that allows you to voice your thoughts! God you could be living in Iran or Afghanistan under the Taliban!
“Among the countless problems with this film, the scene with the Arab father who said he would be proud if his son died a martyr, really stuck with me. I thought of the Canadian Military families that are routinely featured on the nightly news, as the propaganda surrounding the ‘humanitarian’ mission in Afghanistan intensifies.
These families whole heartedly support their children and they speak of their pride without hesitation, without questioning the mission. How is that different from the vilified Arab families who are proud of their children? Do they not have a right to resist? They aren’t going off invading foreign lands but simply defending their own. This double standard irks me to no end.”
Are you KIDDING me Fizza – You are comparing jihadist “martyrs” against Canadian soldiers? Seriously now? Now THAT I find funny and just a little bit sick in the head !
“Islam has never forbidden any questions. Islam has never forbidden freedom of thoughts.”
Wassalam! You are telling me to this day that in muslim majority/dominant countries that those who control the apparatus of Islam, do not forbid freedom of thought? PLEASE !
Jamie, I have a feeling you didn’t read my post – only the comments or you wouldn’t have written,
“It’s as though you are a theater critic that absolutely refuses to see a performance and then chooses to then write about it in the Toronto Star.”
I DID see Ms. Manji’s film. And then I wrote about it. Simple.
You wrote: “Why don’t you just read the book and then make a judgment?”
Because I wasn’t doing a review of her book. Just the film. Which I saw. Simple.
Next, moving on to your other comments about
1. thanking God I live here
2. jihadist “martyrs”
3. freedom of thought in Islam
Here are my short responses:
1. Thank you for the reminder to thank God.
2. A case of semantics. I’m sure if you were born “elsewhere” the people you would be calling “our troops” would look a little different than OUR troops.
3. You answered this one yourself when you said “those who control the apparatus of Islam” forbid the freedom of thought; I would add to your answer that it is not Islam that forbids it but, again, as you said, “those who control the apparatus of Islam” who do. Thanks for your help on this one.
yours,
commonplacer
Hi Commonplacer,
Still more positive signs regarding inter-religious dialogue for the good of humanity! You likely know of the “Letter of the 138 Islamic Scholars” to Christian Church leaders. Pope Benedict XVI replied here http://www.zenit.org/article-21147?l=english .
Peace, Arthur
Hi Commonplacer,
At Islamonline.com I came across the article below. I am thinking that because Muslims have religious freedom in the West there should be more action on the part of Muslims in western countries to advocate for religious minorities in Muslim majority countries. Do you know of any organisations working to attain equal rights for non-Muslims in the Islamic cultural sphere? I know there are some human rights groups here advocating for religious minorities.
Peace. Arthur
________________________
Malaysia Bans “Allah” for Catholics
IslamOnline.net & News Agencies
The Herald was told that the use of the word Allah should be exclusive only for the Muslim community.
KUALA LUMPUR —
Malaysian Catholics are disappointed by a government decision to ban the Catholic Church’s newspaper from using the word “Allah”, the Arabic term for God, on the claim that it should be exclusive for Muslims.
“The government does not want us to use the word Allah,” Augustine Julian, Secretary of the Catholic Bishops’ Conference in Malaysia, told Agence France Presse (AFP) on Wednesday, December 26.
The Internal Security Ministry has ordered a ban on articles written in Malay in The Herald, the weekly newspaper of the Catholic Church which publishes reports in English, Malay, Chinese and Tamil.
It based the decision on the use of the word Allah in articles published in the Malay section of the tabloid, arguing the word should not be used by religious communities other than Muslims.
Race, language and religion are touchy issues in multiethnic Malaysia, where Muslim Malays form about 60 percent of the 26-million population.
“But this is against the constitution that allows the freedom of religion,” said Julian.
“Christians are definitely unhappy.”
He said Church leaders would ask the government of Prime Minister Abdullah Ahmed Badawi to clarify the matter and then appeal if the government refuses to lift the ban.
Christians make up around 9.1 percent of the population, including a Catholic population of nearly 800,000.
Usually dubbed the “melting pot” of Asia for its potpourri of cultures, Malaysia has long been held up as a model of peaceful co-existence among its races and religions.
Buddhists and Hindus constitute 19.2 and 6.3 percent of the population respectively.
Inclusive Allah
A senior Internal Security Ministry official tried to explain the controversial decision.
“Allah is only for the Muslim god,” Che Din of the Ministry’s publications control unit told The Associated Press.
“This is a design to confuse the Muslim people.”
He suggested that the Church weekly should use the word “Tuhan”, which is another term for God in Malay language.
But Catholic leaders insist the widely-used “Allah” word can not be exclusive for Muslims.
“We follow the Bible,” Julian told AFP.
“The Malay-language Bible uses Allah for God.”
They contend that the use of “Allah” is nothing new and has long been invoked in prayers and during Malay masses.
“If the government feels the word Allah creates confusion among Muslims, then they should educate their Muslims,” Julian said.
Arthur,
It’s been reversed. What can one say about ill-thought out decisions?
peace…
Hi Again,
I’m happy to see steps toward formal dialogue between Christian leaders and the 138 Muslim scholars continue to move ahead positively:
http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0707338.htm
Praise be to God!
Arthur
P.S. (I think at times that your father could be one of the signatories…)
Hi Commonplacer,
I was watching this http://www.catholic.org/video/?v=49 and thought you’d appreciate what Mother Teresa had to say (at the elapsed time of 6:30 [6 min. 30 sec.] and at 13:30 especially); although there’re many points throughout upon which Muslims and Christians might have agreement about the character of God, and how God works in the world.
Peace. Arthur
Commonplacer,
By the way, I SUPER APPRECIATE the fact that you put up with my questions, comments, and wrestlings with issues pertaining to Islam, Christianity, humanity, and the salvation of the soul.
Doubly Peace, Arthur
Arthur, thank you for visiting this blog. But honestly, I cannot tell about the tone of some of your comments – and you have posted many. I hope they don’t fall into the “trolling” category.
Thank you for the link to the Mother Teresa video. I admire her – she’s an amazing role model. But I don’t thank you for some of the links you have sent that I have not displayed. I feel they are not in the spirit of Jesus (peace be upon him), Mother Teresa or maybe even yourself (only you would know). I cannot answer for the actions of Muslims who choose not to follow the teachings of the Qur’an and the prophet Muhammad (p.b.u.h.) in the same way as you cannot answer for George Bush, a “committed” Christian.
I hope you would see at least by reading my blog (and maybe some of the links on my blogroll), that Muslims are a diverse group of people – there are many of us who wish only to live our lives in a way which will please God due to its peaceful, affirming interactions with His creation – just as I see that people of other religions are diverse; truthfully, I see the good in ALL the people I meet. I have NEVER met anyone who is different from me and seen that person only through the filter of the negative actions of a few who belong their religion/race/culture/etc. I hope you are not doing that to the Muslims you encounter.
peace again.